Dragnix.Net

I think in general it is very possible for dragons to existed. No offense to those who are religious but look at the bible how do we know all of the things in there are true and some guy way back when didnt just make it up. and as for the belief in god in general an almighty sentinent being sorry but i find it a little more believable for dragons to have existed

I'll spare you my usual rant that I give/yell at people who say that. Instead, I merely will say:

<1> [edited out]

2: There have been numerous problems with people bringing up the subject of religion. All that could ever happen is a shouting match, bad feelings, etc. That is why the board rules say that our religion is to be "let at the door," and atheism is a form of religion: i.e. the idea that man is his own master and god. So both religous propagation AND attacks on religions are not allowed here, and I'm sure that the older board members will back me up on #2 if not #1.

And there is a category for absolutely proven things. 2+2=4 for everwhere, and anywhere, and anywhen. There are some things that can be known for certain, and are only contradicted by the world's usual batch of idiots who'll contradict the sun rising if it brings them publicity.

Your post has been edited because it violates some our basic forum rules (#7 and #8).
Edited by Tempest

I have been thinking on that, and I did think that through wrong.

So to save us both some trouble I'll just add the "Shown True" level.


But it does take a lot more than an old story, I don't care where it came from. Or an old elephant bone someone is claming to be a dragon. I want a body, giant squids wash ashore a fare amount and other creatures who were once mythic are found. So when they finally find the body it will be shown true. And I have said this before, I will gladly admit being wrong that dragons are only myth.

But the point is to remove the clearly wrong things. So when and if the real proof is found, people can't use the bad evidence against it.

Zeromancer, see Falconer's Post.

Falconer: First off, I feel inclined to say that atheism usually refers to the belief that there is no greater cosmology whatsoever, and 'satanism' often to the worship of oneself. And now I digress.

Great we got the truth category settled.

There is documentation, statues, epitaphs, and so many other things that document the dragon and it dates back thousands of years in many cultures around the world. There are so many things we as people dont even know about are own planet and we are quick to dismiss them because we dont have bones, dna, living specimen, or corpse. Im just saying I would sooner believe in dragons having existed than some guy claiming to be the only true non sinner of an almighty sentinet being that created the earth in 7 days which is peposterous because carbon dating has disproved that out the window. I am not trying to be ignorant of anything just giving my piece like every one else.

no offense to any just making conversation

Zeromancer Said:

There is documentation, statues, epitaphs, and so many other things that document the dragon and it dates back thousands of years in many cultures around the world. There are so many things we as people dont even know about are own planet and we are quick to dismiss them because we dont have bones, dna, living specimen, or corpse. Im just saying I would sooner believe in dragons having existed than some guy claiming to be the only true non sinner of an almighty sentinet being that created the earth in 7 days which is peposterous because carbon dating has disproved that out the window. I am not trying to be ignorant of anything just giving my piece like every one else.

I don't think you read Falconers post Zeromancer. Leave religion at the door. I would go on a rather large talk here but I'll obey my own advice and... Leave religion at the door.

Sorry to the members here about this post. I just don't like people trashing other peoples beliefs when their own can be equaly absurd to others.

@Justwondering: No problem. I agree, trashing other's beliefs is what we're trying to prevent here.

@Zeromancer: Shut up while you're ahead. You got your warning.

@Silentiea: Everyone worships. Basically, think about your descisions. Do you trust yourself to be the best jucge of what is going on? Because basically that's what religion is.

I am not trashing religion so throw that idea out of your head if i was trashing it i would be saying leud and trashy remarks i am stating points, and my thoughts So please dont try and make me feel all small and incompetent all right. I am not trying to make enemies here but apparently a new persons point of views arent welcome here, but I will continue to frequent this site just to state my opinions like every one else.

@Faloconer: did not know this was the bow down to falconer the almighties sight, and for your reference child i will not shut up

*ignores Zeromancer* Still, the countless references to large fire-breathing reptiles across the world would lend credence to the dragons' existence.

Who're you talking to with that last part, vampire? I don't see anything like that between your tow most recent posts...

Falconer wrote:*ignores Zeromancer* Still, the countless references to large fire-breathing reptiles across the world would lend credence to the dragons' existence.

That post.

Really if you look, the numbers are not as large as you think.

Really if you look, the numbers are not as large as you think.

If dragons are not real, why are there any reports of fire breathing dragons at all? Hmm the problem with this topic of 'real or myth' is that it keeps on going in circles. Very interesting circles none the less.

Well that is the point of this thread. I know there is no hard proof on dragons (and other things like that). But there is enough to keep the idea alive. It is the same thing as with UFOs, people all over the world have seen the things (even more than dragons). But I have yet to see either.

But I really see some dragon myths are from the same realm as "the fish that got away". People add things to make the story sound better. For example which of these would sound better to tell about.

"Hey, the other day I killed this big lizard."

or

"Three days ago I met in battle with a huge creature covered with scales which must have been made of steel, for arrows just bounced off of them and they didn't even show a mark of my sword. Then the beast and breathed towards be red hot flames as if it opened the gates of hell. After a long battle I found a weak area on the creature perching its hart with my steel."

And I would believe the story would have things added to it as they went from person to person. Maybe a maiden would be added, or a great treasure. These people are not lying per say, but they want the story to sound better.

Let me ask you this. Have you ever added to a personal story, just to sound a little better? Make something look larger, have more of things, look more beautiful or whatever.

I've never added to a story per se, but I've completely rewritten them to see the looks of incredulity on people's faces.

Oh, and: Cognition.

Good point vampirehunter. After the original story was told with a few 'modifications' you would get an effect like Chinese whispers. It still does not explain everything though.
I think adding bits and pieces to stories is part of human nature, and most of us would have done it at some stage of our lives for various reasons.

Zeromancer wrote:I'm just saying I would sooner believe in dragons having existed than some guy claiming to be the only true non sinner of an almighty sentinet being that created the earth in 7 days which is peposterous because carbon dating has disproved that out the window.

Carbon Dating? You believe that?!?! *increduality* It's notoriusly innaccurate in some cases. Different elements naturally being there can make it seem way older than it actually is.

DragonRider Wrote:

Carbon Dating? You believe that?!?! *increduality* It's notoriusly innaccurate in some cases. Different elements naturally being there can make it seem way older than it actually is.

I couldn't agree more. Carbon Dating is ****** (English does not have enough words to describe it.) It accurate sometimes, but way out on others so you never know when its right. Carbon dating does not prove or disprove anything. It only changes peoples opinions.

If i may i will add my own thoughts to this incredibly interesting discussion.

Before i start i should warn you that i usually end up debating with myself but my final thoughts are that dragons never existed in the context we are speaking of. I believe they are a possibility but never actually existed.

Now i will attempt to explain. As far as we are aware there are varying forms on the dragon and i am going to assume we are discussing them all and not just the four legged firebreating western dragon.

There are tales transferred as far back as 40000BC from the aboriginies of australia which relate to a flying snake called the rainbow serpent. Word of mouth though is not very reliable evidence. However there have been pottery artifacts and engravings in China, Ireland, Celtic southern europe going back as far as 4000BC. This being the case some might argue it is nigh on impossible to discount the dragon due to its tale being displayed all over the world.

However my thoughts (and this is only that) is that people travelled. We already know in india that the Naga came from a tribe (funnily enough named the Naga tribe by neighbouring tribes) which worshipped the snake as an idol. When Buddism spread from the south, rather than squash this alien religiion they amalgamated it and changed it due to its popularity. Therefore the Naga became a famous and powerful indian semi deity.

I believe this happened all over the world. I believe the dragon was our explanation for the unexplanable. I velieve the dragon is a true testimony to the power of our imagination.

The Celts are a prime example for my theory. They travelled near indo China where the tales of Fy Hsi and the dragon were ripe. They may have picked up on parts of these tales and taken them with them on their journy north towards britain. They passed Egypt, Sumer and babylon around the same time (2500bc) as the Tiamat and Marduk, Aapep and Set Myths sprung into creation. Perhaps the Celts passed on their newly gained dragon tales to the egyptians and Babylonians. They then travelled north where they eventually settled. And it is here the dragon tales ended their Celtic journey. But they continued to spread. India did much travelling o China and may well have sparked off the chinese dragon as we know it now. Equally when China taught the Japanese to write, the tale of Fu Hsi may well have transferred as well.

Some say the physiology of the dragon is impossible. I disagree with this and would challenge anyone to come up with an argument against the physical possibility of a dragon that i could not counter.

I wont continue, i have no doubt bored everyone of you now and being new thats not what i wanted to do.

The above is just my opinion, the facts are indeed facts but the dragon related infomation can never be so. Because what ever we believe, whether it be for or against, there is no proof. And to be honest, i hope it stays that way. because the mysticism surrounding the dragon is what makes them so fascinating.

Wow.

I agree with Dariune. Dragon physiology is only impossible if the natural zipper present in bird's feathers is impossible.

Wikipedia wrote:A typical vaned feather features a main shaft, called the rachis. Fused to the rachis are a series of branches, or barbs; the barbs themselves are also branched and form the barbules. These barbules have minute hooks called barbicels for cross-attachment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feather

I mean, there are enough incredulous things in nature to dwarf dragons by comparison, including but not limited to:

Termite ventilation of their mounds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termite#Mounds

Spider "foreknowledge" of offspring's gender. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasp#Solitary_wasps

etc., etc.

Good post Dariune.........

Well the spider post you game was to wasps, and seeing they are related to ants the queen can do that on there own.



But Dariune, where did you get that Celt information. I would really like to read on their visits to China. I have never heard of that. I know the Middle East had trading routes to China, and the Norse may have had contact with them through Russia.

The Celt infomation comes from three years of studying mythology related history. Im sure i can point out some books as references if your interested in further reading.

They didnt visit China. They started east of Egypt near indo China if i recall correctly. They wandered north, various tribes settling such as the Gauls in France.

My belief is the tales of dragons or serpent related religious icons travelled with them. And perhaps spread from them to Sumer, Babylon and Egypt.

There is no proof, but then, as i mentioned, the beauty of dragons is that there is no proof for either side of the argument.

I have (or rather am in the process of) developed an entire physilogical theory on the possible existence of the western dragons form. Ranging from its internal organs to its wings and evolution. Funny really as i dont believe they could have existed.

If you would not mind, I find it easy to find Greek, Roman and other things like that from that area. But the Celts are a little hard, I guess it is the winners write the history idea. I like to read up on history, and would like to understand things better.

And I think I am thinking of the wrong Celts. (I am from the US after all, we like to put you into a set name or whatever.) I was thinking the Celts were just the peoples of the English Islands, and the Gauls came from more of the Russia area being pushed out by the other tribes there. (and so on and so forth) And then the Vikings really mixed things us for who was who.

But to add to the fire here, what about the relative absence of dragon myths in the Greeks and Romans. There are some there like the Hydra and things like that, but compared to later tales in the same area they are just not there. And seeing this is before the myths of the "dragon slayers" the dragon would have been much more on the ground, air or water.

Were i allowed permission to advertise my site i would have to point you to it.

Let me try to answer your questions to the best of my abilities.
The Celts ended up living in Britian but they started their life (as far as historians know) as far south east as europe gets. They travelled from there (probably chased out by neighbouring tribes) to britian.

However on the way many of the celts settled. Hence the Gauls and many other tribes. They originate from one area but settled in different places and times. This is why many of the religions and mythologies bore similarities.

Both Greek and Roman mythology is rich in dragons. The greeks have such dragons as The Dragon of Ladon who later became the constellation we know as Draco. They have Typhon (which i believe is where our word Typhoon comes from) and they have the Hydra. The Roman mythology actually started out as similar to the Pagan beliefs of northern England.
They believed in spirits and ghosts.
After time the Greek myths were copied by the Romans until the legends were as we know them now.

I might also state that the word "Dragon" comes from the latin word "Draco" which in turn comes from the Greek word "Drackon" or "Draconis" which means to guard or to watch.

I hope this enlightens you a little